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Is this fair?

Question:

hi all.
DD1 is going through a phase of not liking school (she gets them every now and again, I just go with the flow!).
Anyway her biggest grievance at the moment is that if a few kids are talking/being bold then they all have to stay back at lunch break or spend more time doing maths as some were talking and didn't get their work done.
Anyway it is really annoying her as she thinks it is unfair.
I basically told her that is the teachers way and she has her reasons...but to be honest I am not sure how fair it is. I know dealing with a large class is hard going so I have sympathy with her, and as I am not in her position I can't say what I would do if some kids were constantly playing up and talking.
Do you think it is fair that all kids suffer due to the minority misbehaving?
Also I never really remember talking in class, if kids were talking we got a giving out too and you didn't do it again! Do kids just ignore the teacher these days?
L
Answers:
I know that an all round punishment like that would upset my DD.
I have no advice perhaps mention it to the teacher as if its a regular thing, the teacher might not realise the impact it has on the good ones.
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Lumpy i find this very annoying. I think it's very unfair for those who are being good to be punished........ Ds2 comes home now and again with 'extra' homework. I ask him why he got 'extra' homework and it's usually peter or paul were messing or talking and so teacher gives the whole class 'extra' homework.....this bugs me !!
Answers:
I think it's totally unfair. It happened a few weeks ago in ds's class. teacher gets them to line up in seperate lines boys in one and girls in the other. 3 boys were messing (a few kids mentioned the same 3 names) so all the boys were going to miss out on art on the friday. Ds was bawling at home saying i wish i was a girl then i wouldnt be in trouble.
I was going to leave it till the fri (to see if it happened or if she was trying to scare them into being good) and then ask teacher why ds was punished, but he beat me to it.
he marched up to her desk and told her it wasnt fair and that it should only be the boys that were bold in trouble, her reply was i know but im still going to do it.
in the end she "forgot" that the boys were in trouble.
sorry for hi-jacking the post Lumpy
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Gosh that sounds quite unfair. My DS would have a fit if he got punished in a group for a minority misbehaving. I wonder if the teacher in question has good control of her class? I don't know how you would deal with this though, sorry!
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I think the reasoning behind it is that children will respond better to their peers.So if the kids that mis behaved are getting a hard time from the others in class because of having to miss out then they are less likely to repeat the offence.
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I can understand this kind of 'global' punishment if the teacher doesn't know who the messers are, just hearing general noise and not being able to see who's generating it, but if the teacher knows who exactly is doing the messing, why the hell is she punishing others too???? Does she really think that they're going to give a damn if their 'pals' are punished as well. In fairness I thought this kind of crap was over and done with since my own school days when it was the norm.
Mini, the problem is, I just don't think these kind of kids who do the majority of the messing, give a damn one way or the other. Which makes it doubly unfair that the innocent are punished too - cause it isn't any deterrent.
Speedy, well done to your DS for dealing with it himself though I think I'd have stepped in if she had made him miss Art. Her reply was completely and utterly childish.
Lami
Answers:
Thanks for the replies. Now I know I only have dd's side of things and she is one of these children that never misbehaves (in school I hasten to add!), and if the teacher says x she does x and can't understand why others do y.
She has a rule that they can't speak while eating, and they all have to eat their lunch...if they talk then the ones finished have to wait in their line until the talkers are finished and then they can go out, and dd says they miss a lot of yard time. (now maybe they actually don't but it feels it to dd).
Or if they talk during class then they might miss some of lunch to do that work even if a lot have it done.
it didn't help today that the juniors/seniors got a trip out on a nature walk and they never get them this year so I imagine dd is feeling very hard done by!
I think she has some kids who misbehave a lot, and she has very few ways to get them to behave, I can totally understand her frustration but my dd is beginning to hate these kids. I am sure dd is not the only one so it creates a divide.
speedy well done to your ds for standing up for himself, he probably contributed to her forgetting.
Rainbow extra homework would bug me too. That is unfair!
Anyway if it continues to upset dd I will go in and see whether dd has the correct end of the stick. I do feel the teacher is very good and has her reasons. Mini I think she is thinking along those lines but maybe at 7 they are a bit too young and don't see it that way? Lami maybe the teacher doesn't know who the messers are and that is the reason...as I say I only have dd's side of things! She (dd) knows damn well who the messers are (and it is all boys which makes matters worse, she is becoming anti boys now!) . It is a large class though, and some children have special needs and need extra attention so I don't envy the teachers work.
The joys of children, it is very uncomplicated when they were toddlers
Answers:
Sounds a bit unfair, but tbh, I would check with the teacher before jumping to conclusions as to who is making the trouble (if you want to get to the bottom of it etc...not saying for a moment your DD is involved, but the majority of the class could be involved in the odd laugh-off at teachers expense and it may be hard for her to pin-point the main culprits as there may be many, and so she may have to punish the whole class as opposed to singling out and missing a child that deserves the punishment iykwim.
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I know that Tobo, and I can imagine most of the boys are involved but none of the girls (only a handful of girls in the class), the girls are so serious compared to the boys (again I know there are exceptions here too). As I say I only have dd's side of things. I think the girls are fuming amongst themselves. They are getting sick of the boys big time..
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That's not so good. It's not great if the class is 'divided' along the girl-hate-boy boy-hate-girl lines when they are in 1st. How many are in the class?
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I have experienced this myself with my 8yrold ds1 and as he is a real teachers pet and a leader it really upsets him.. but he has no hesitation in pointing this out the the teacher himself if he think's it's unfair as he is a real stickler for rules and fairness
In the teacher's defence tho I can understand it can be at times hard to determine just who is talking and who is not so the easiest thing to do is punish them all in hope that it will deter the guilty party's from repeating this behaviour and getting the rest of the class punished i hope you get this sorted for your dd1 sake
Answers:
Crikey - off the topic - but KIDS eating their lunch in silence (WTF??) - seems soo draconian . DD's class (SI) are given a set time to eat, and then it;s tidy up and out to play....if it's finished it's finished, they bring home their unfinished items to ward off furry critters in the school, plus means we (the parents) can monitor if the lunch is demolished!
As a child, I was very much into if I played by the rules I couldn't understand global punishment for the sins of others - really caused resentment!! Lami's right - thought this strategy was outdated and didn't think it was used anymore.....
Hope the culprits start behaving and send her big hugs from me, and maybe a mummy treat for being so good for you might cheer her up.
No solutions though - I too think it's unfair to punish children who behave - where is the incentive to behave properly???
C

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